This is what the left refuses to understand: when you spit upon everyone who is even slightly less left than you, the recipients end up being driven rightward.
Example: Hexbear.net. Edit: actually, that’s a bad example since they aren’t truly “left”, just cosplaying as such while acting similar to MAGA, differing mainly in the words chosen yet similar in thinking processes, i.e. an echo chamber by a different name is still an echo chamber.
Can you explain why communism isn’t truly left, and how dialectical materialism is similar to MAGA thought? Both of those concepts are highly confusing.
Also, the idea that political struggle from the left drives people rightward doesn’t seem to bear out in reality. I always see this concept coming from conservatives, but I have always seen it as an excuse for people to blame their own right-wing views on others.
Sure, but “you were mean to me so now I’m joining maga” is pretty silly.
Some people are like that, I guess, but if someone rudely explains how racism is deeply entrenched in the US that doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
You were the one who brought up that comic, not me. Yes, it is rather silly, or I would say reductionistic.
But the aggressively ignorant and apathetic can fuck right off.
I’m not (fully) disagreeing with your statement here btw.
Though this one here again is too reductionistic:
Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
I am saying read up about how human psychology works. Let’s use a hypothetical: a single mother, widowed even, is trying to take care of multiple children, and on her way to work every single leftist that she knew irl punched her in the face every single day. On outcome is that she would probably be unlikely to desire to spend the time to even so much as read what leftist philosophy is all about, and therefore she would come away with a false impression of what it even meant.
Consider the case of Christianity: do those who e.g. interrupt funeral proceedings holding signs and yelling at the top of their lungs how “god hates f4*s!” provide an accurate portrayal of their supposedly central message of showing love to one another (gentleness, faithfulness, self control, and the like)?
Likewise communists punching out not actual Nazis but merely the stressed out and uninformed - particularly those less intellectually endowed - is not likely to win many converts to the cause. But that’s just my two cents.
and on her way to work every single leftist that she knew irl punched her in the face every single day.
But no there’s no corresponding “leftists are doing something like punching her in the face” in real life. Certainly not “every single” one. I agree that people are emotionally driven ( https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe is a good comic about it ).
There are extremists in any sect - the christian fanatics, animal rights ecoterrorists, whatever. But it’s not “the left” as a whole, or even a majority.
Unless, I guess, you consider a scenario like
“I just think gay people shouldn’t be so visible. It’s confusing to my children”
“That’s a messed up thing to say. Gay people are a part of life. Shunting them into the closet so you can avoid a mildly uncomfortable conversation is unjust”
Echo chambers that deny facts in favor of their preferred view of reality? (e.g. that Ukraine is the aggressor rather than Russia) Check.
Tribal politicking, where facts chiefly matter depending on who is speaking them? Check.
Refusal to update one’s viewpoint after seeing incontrovertible evidence that would otherwise demand it, if someone’s goal was truth? Check.
Making use of every logical fallacy to sow FUD in their opponents? Check.
A better strategy might be to stop thinking of humans as “opponents” and rather than “beat them”, aid their thinking to enlighten and uplift them by knowledge, essentially turning an opponent into a true ally, as opposed to merely a worn down victim of bullying practices.
Moral purity beatings will continue until morale improves.
All of what you said applies to you, though, which is why the only example you gave was the strawman idea that Ukraine is the aggressor, rather than NATO. No matter how many facts I have given you, irrefutable evidence, you generally dismissed it as “propaganda” while sowing FUD everywhere. Seriously, there are only a handful of people as obsessed with communists on this collection of websites that I’ve seen, and I only really recognize you because you kept mentioning me long after we had had a conversation.
This is what the left refuses to understand: when you spit upon everyone who is even slightly less left than you, the recipients end up being driven rightward.
Example: Hexbear.net.Edit: actually, that’s a bad example since they aren’t truly “left”, just cosplaying as such while acting similar to MAGA, differing mainly in the words chosen yet similar in thinking processes, i.e. an echo chamber by a different name is still an echo chamber.Can you explain why communism isn’t truly left, and how dialectical materialism is similar to MAGA thought? Both of those concepts are highly confusing.
Also, the idea that political struggle from the left drives people rightward doesn’t seem to bear out in reality. I always see this concept coming from conservatives, but I have always seen it as an excuse for people to blame their own right-wing views on others.
Fortunately your intellect is far to great for you to be caught in a echo chamber.
Evokes this comic https://thenib.com/fault-right/
I mean, that argument seems a little… hyperbolic.
It is possible for people to disagree and not be dicks about it.
Sure, but “you were mean to me so now I’m joining maga” is pretty silly.
Some people are like that, I guess, but if someone rudely explains how racism is deeply entrenched in the US that doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Rejecting their message because they were mean is childish.
You were the one who brought up that comic, not me. Yes, it is rather silly, or I would say reductionistic.
I’m not (fully) disagreeing with your statement here btw.
Though this one here again is too reductionistic:
I am saying read up about how human psychology works. Let’s use a hypothetical: a single mother, widowed even, is trying to take care of multiple children, and on her way to work every single leftist that she knew irl punched her in the face every single day. On outcome is that she would probably be unlikely to desire to spend the time to even so much as read what leftist philosophy is all about, and therefore she would come away with a false impression of what it even meant.
Consider the case of Christianity: do those who e.g. interrupt funeral proceedings holding signs and yelling at the top of their lungs how “god hates f4*s!” provide an accurate portrayal of their supposedly central message of showing love to one another (gentleness, faithfulness, self control, and the like)?
Likewise communists punching out not actual Nazis but merely the stressed out and uninformed - particularly those less intellectually endowed - is not likely to win many converts to the cause. But that’s just my two cents.
But no there’s no corresponding “leftists are doing something like punching her in the face” in real life. Certainly not “every single” one. I agree that people are emotionally driven ( https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe is a good comic about it ).
There are extremists in any sect - the christian fanatics, animal rights ecoterrorists, whatever. But it’s not “the left” as a whole, or even a majority.
Unless, I guess, you consider a scenario like
“I just think gay people shouldn’t be so visible. It’s confusing to my children”
“That’s a messed up thing to say. Gay people are a part of life. Shunting them into the closet so you can avoid a mildly uncomfortable conversation is unjust”
to be punching someone in the face.
tankies are more liken to conservatives then like to admit.
How are communists more liken to fascists?
Echo chambers that deny facts in favor of their preferred view of reality? (e.g. that Ukraine is the aggressor rather than Russia) Check.
Tribal politicking, where facts chiefly matter depending on who is speaking them? Check.
Refusal to update one’s viewpoint after seeing incontrovertible evidence that would otherwise demand it, if someone’s goal was truth? Check.
Making use of every logical fallacy to sow FUD in their opponents? Check.
A better strategy might be to stop thinking of humans as “opponents” and rather than “beat them”, aid their thinking to enlighten and uplift them by knowledge, essentially turning an opponent into a true ally, as opposed to merely a worn down victim of bullying practices.
Moral purity beatings will continue until morale improves.
All of what you said applies to you, though, which is why the only example you gave was the strawman idea that Ukraine is the aggressor, rather than NATO. No matter how many facts I have given you, irrefutable evidence, you generally dismissed it as “propaganda” while sowing FUD everywhere. Seriously, there are only a handful of people as obsessed with communists on this collection of websites that I’ve seen, and I only really recognize you because you kept mentioning me long after we had had a conversation.