American atheists’ favorite hobby is reconstructing christian cosmology from an unexamined base of fundamentally christian assumptions about the world. Look at roko’s basilisk.
Understanding religion gives you a better context for the culture you emerge from, how it got to be where it is, and what underlining assumptions drive it ideologically. You can wish for a clean break from that historical context all you want, is isn’t gonna actually happen.
understanding isnt believing. people need to be educated about the dangers and failures of religion if we ever want to move past it. i would never advocate for forgetting it. but sure put words in my mouth.
I’m not sure it’s possible to move past it, at least not in any of our lifetimes. Some long tail where specific faiths wither away bit by bit with each generation, maybe. Though, I find it hard to imagine that space not somehow being filled with some other form of spirituality.
More to the point, surely you don’t mean all religions?
you just keep putting words in my mouth. you cant end religion by forcing people to stop. you end it by educating people and teaching them critical thinking, so they can see the inherent flaws of religion for themselves and decide for themselves to leave it behind. its not a coincidence that more educated people tend to be much less religious. clearly the solution is more education for everyone, which would also help human society in innumerable other ways.
its not a coincidence that more educated people tend to be much less religious.
It’s not a coincidence because it’s not true. The effect of education on religion varies considerably depending on country, and that’s before we even consider confounding variables.
That would certainly curtail the most reactionary elements of religion, but I don’t think that would end it. Maybe for some. But faith, like any institution cultural or otherwise, evolves with its environment.
I love how you folks always assume that if anyone doesn’t agree with your religion then they just don’t understand it yet. It’s not hard to grasp, it’s really fucking simple, and it’s not hard to see that every religion is just the same stupid woowoo bullshit.
Seriously, have you seen the “rokos basilisk” thing? Buncha self-identified “rationalists” recreating god from first principles and a network connection.
Yeah, I’m very familiar with the Rationalists, and the Zizians, they don’t understand that science-fiction is fiction, just like how other cults don’t understand fantasy is fantasy, cults are going to cult. If anything, they are a further call to reject religious/cult reasoning and culture. It’s a mindset that seeks an intentional and deliberate misunderstanding of reality.
No, the prerequisites to falling into a cult are vulnerability, misunderstanding, naïveté, peer pressure, desperation, seeking social acceptance, and opportunity. You can very much have enough awareness and independence of thought to not join nor be susceptible to cults and recognize cult behavior and ideology, not everybody is that desperate for something to give their life an illusion of greater meaning.
American atheists’ favorite hobby is reconstructing christian cosmology from an unexamined base of fundamentally christian assumptions about the world. Look at roko’s basilisk.
Understanding religion gives you a better context for the culture you emerge from, how it got to be where it is, and what underlining assumptions drive it ideologically. You can wish for a clean break from that historical context all you want, is isn’t gonna actually happen.
understanding isnt believing. people need to be educated about the dangers and failures of religion if we ever want to move past it. i would never advocate for forgetting it. but sure put words in my mouth.
I’m not sure it’s possible to move past it, at least not in any of our lifetimes. Some long tail where specific faiths wither away bit by bit with each generation, maybe. Though, I find it hard to imagine that space not somehow being filled with some other form of spirituality.
More to the point, surely you don’t mean all religions?
yeah all religions. believing in made up bullshit is dangerous and wrong.
Hm. You wanna go to tribal land and tell them we’ve once again decided they can’t practice their culture? Cus that’s what your arguing for.
you just keep putting words in my mouth. you cant end religion by forcing people to stop. you end it by educating people and teaching them critical thinking, so they can see the inherent flaws of religion for themselves and decide for themselves to leave it behind. its not a coincidence that more educated people tend to be much less religious. clearly the solution is more education for everyone, which would also help human society in innumerable other ways.
Belatedly funny to realize we’re both arguing for the same thing.
It’s not a coincidence because it’s not true. The effect of education on religion varies considerably depending on country, and that’s before we even consider confounding variables.
That would certainly curtail the most reactionary elements of religion, but I don’t think that would end it. Maybe for some. But faith, like any institution cultural or otherwise, evolves with its environment.
Understanding it is why I don’t believe it
But that is literally what they believe, though. Most Christians don’t know or care about theological deep cuts
I love how you folks always assume that if anyone doesn’t agree with your religion then they just don’t understand it yet. It’s not hard to grasp, it’s really fucking simple, and it’s not hard to see that every religion is just the same stupid woowoo bullshit.
Ah, but you see I am an atheist.
Sure.
Seriously, have you seen the “rokos basilisk” thing? Buncha self-identified “rationalists” recreating god from first principles and a network connection.
Yeah, I’m very familiar with the Rationalists, and the Zizians, they don’t understand that science-fiction is fiction, just like how other cults don’t understand fantasy is fantasy, cults are going to cult. If anything, they are a further call to reject religious/cult reasoning and culture. It’s a mindset that seeks an intentional and deliberate misunderstanding of reality.
Really the only prerequisite to falling into a cult is thinking oneself too smart or moral or whatever to fall into a cult.
No, the prerequisites to falling into a cult are vulnerability, misunderstanding, naïveté, peer pressure, desperation, seeking social acceptance, and opportunity. You can very much have enough awareness and independence of thought to not join nor be susceptible to cults and recognize cult behavior and ideology, not everybody is that desperate for something to give their life an illusion of greater meaning.