I’ll be honest with you, this is one of the things I rarely notice when it’s AI, so this is theoretically targeted at me …

… but I still refuse to seek out AI music or support platforms that allow it for the sake of principle.

A revolution which overturns their domination is authoritarian towards them, but liberatory for everyone else.

Yet again, you’re using a niche definition and acting as though readers should have known it.

Passively voting and trying to reform a system of oppression does not have a track record of success.

Not strictly true. You should instead say “I find the rates of peaceful reform for the better to be too slow and unlikely.”

Also are a cop, incredible gall to call me not-an - anarchist lmao

So when kids on the playground said “takes one to know one,” you understood that to be true and wise? I’m not shocked or anything, but it is kinda funny that you still think that way (but seemingly don’t apply that logic to yourself).

Likewise!

You are dead wrong on both points.

(Trying a tautology like you did. Does it make the following more convincing? No? Must be a waste of typing then.)

Tankies espouse conservative positions.

They do not.

Nazis frequently call themselves nazis. In 1940’s Germany, you could be sent to a concentration camp for not identifying as a nazi. They used the word specifically.

Never head of that. My understanding is it was an anti-nazi slur, and they preferred the term “national socialist.”

Conservatives are pathological liars. I do not respect my enemy, nor those who defend my enemy. So, without respect, “I don’t think you know what you’re talking about and should therefore butt out.”

I never defended them; use your brain sometimes - you might find it fun.

it’s not mental gymnastics, all definitions of authoritarianism have ideological assumptions baked in

They really don’t, but go on.

overthrowing capitalism is going to be authoritarian from the perspective of the capitalists.

Not necessarily, but that is one method.

i am opposed to a dictatorship of capital, which is what both republicans and democrats are in favor of. that is liberal authoritarianism

Right, but you’re for dictatorship of another flavor, ergo you are not an anarchist.

What exactly is more evil than a genocide?

Which of the following makes you more evil:

1. Your friend does a murder and you do little or nothing to stop them.

2. You do a murder.

Fair enough, I must’ve missed your niche definition of “the boot” (AKA authoritarianism).

Bizarre, but I guess if you’re doing mental gymnastics your worldview can definitely make sense to you, much like The Ice Wall is perfectly logical to Flat Earthers.

So in sum, you think that anti-capitalist authoritarianism literally is not authoritarianism. If that’s the case, we have nothing further to discuss.

1. You’re really bending the definition of “conservative” here.

2. “Tankie” is a negative exonym; I’ve never seen a tankie call themselves a tankie. See also “nazi;” they called themselves “national socialists.”

With respect, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about and should therefore butt out.

At that point we have to get into the weeds about whether we’re talking about American “libertarians” or libertarian on the global scale.

My understanding is proper, globally-defined libertarianism is the exact opposite of authoritarianism, which yes, is a critical piece of the auth-left AKA “tankies.” But on that scale, they’d also be in direct opposition to fascism.

Contrast that to American libertarians, which tend to just be pot-smoking Republicans (because the US leans right in general).

TL;DR: Left-libertarians exist, but they’re a rounding error in the US compared to right-libertarians.

i am in favor of being authoritarian towards capitalists, yes.

Then why the hell say “MLs want to get rid of the boot entirely” when you are advocating for that very boot?

Are you just hoping someone gullible reads what you’re writing?

I still can’t get over the fact that, in my party, the idea that someone might not have voted because of a genocide generates more anger and resentment than the party leaders being openly complicit in a genocide does.

Because we already know Evil is going to vote pro-Evil. Trying to convince a member of the KKK to vote for a Democrat is a waste of time.

It’s when Good decides they’re not going to vote for Lesser Evil that we question their sanity.

I already give any democrat a free ‘harm reduction’ vote so I’ll be damned if they’re going to guilt trip me for being pro-Palestine and anti-genocide on top of it,

Then you’re not the target of the aforementioned guilt-trip (from the reasonable people among us), so what’s the fuss? Obviously Zionists aren’t going to like that you’re pro-Palestine; why do you care what Zionists think?

Okay, pedant.

Not literally anyone who has used a tank.

Feel better?

yes i had a feeling you would be sitting on the fence about this

“Someone didn’t immediately decide For or Against something with limited information?! Fucking fence sitter!”

‘tankies’ are in no position to arrest me, nor is the prospect of them doing so anything close to an immediate threat.

Yeah, because they’re not in power (yet) in your area. How does that make any sense, to support despotism as long as it isn’t in power? If they seize power in your area and you are subsequently oppressed, then and only then will you be against their political philosophy?

Pretty selfish and short-sighted IMO. I hate nazis. I don’t need them to be in power to hate them.

meanwhile if i give you more details about what i get up to you or another liberal would probably try to have me arrested all the same.

Yeah again, I’m not advocating For or Against whatever crime you’re talking about because I have zero details about it.

I feel like it doesn’t take a lot of thinking to realize why, but I can hold your hand through the logic if you’d like.

dawg godric is always vomiting out dishonestly framed garbage, idk why you take it seriously. the tally board framing flatters democrats harms by only counting visible acts of harm while ignoring the structural harm they maintain and enable. for example the deportation machine

Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

the carceral state

Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

the warmongering

Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

the genocide funding,

Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

the preemptive compliance with trump

Which Republicans are far more guilty of.

counting those as 5 tally marks would be laughable because that’s the infrastructure of harm that makes the 50,000 possible.

I have this same argument with you tankie(-allies) just about every week on Lemmy; you fail to understand the concept of “Lesser of Two Evils.” Or in your case, you fail to apply it to liberals when you are perfectly comfortable applying it to tankies. Either you’re confused or you’re a propagandist.

i have probably read orders of magnitude more from and about those guys than you have, but thank you for linking wikipedia to me

Evidently not, because just a moment ago you claimed there are zero boots on necks under Marxist-Leninist governments.

however many skulls you attribute to those fighting against capitalism, the pile created by capitalism dwarfs that.

Okay so now that you’ve moved the goal-post from “There is zero despotism under M-L” to “Well, a little despotism is okay. We can exterminate certain people we disagree with,” you align with fascists more than you align with liberals (or anarchists, for that matter).

And my phone “rings” even though it has no bell, and I “hang it up” even though I tap a pretend button on a screen.

Terms change. “Tankie” means auth-left, not literally anyone in a tank.

The term for someone who crushes civilians with a tank in the Auth-Right is “fascist,” even if they don’t carry fasces.

Keep up. Pop open a dictionary every once in a while, or heavens forbid, touch grass or talk to people.

i promise you it’s not rare, it’s an ongoing phenomena. i literally just had comrades getting arrested by democrat politicians for protesting those politicians abandoning trans kids medically to protect institutions and placate trump.

Loads of details left out of this, so I can’t really say if I would be For or Against those arrests, but your ideology as stated in this thread is predicated upon tankies never arresting protestors, which is… how to put it politely… incorrect.

this says more about you than anything else. democrats have had their boots on plenty of necks, just with more appealing branding. democrats built and operated the deportation machine before trump, have been bombing multiple countries continuously when in power, and out of power are arresting trans activists rather than opposing trump.

Yeah, fair to say that I hyperbolized - Democrats can be oppressors just like anyone else, but much like the meme points out, they do it far less, so that’s how I vote when the General rolls around.

The point, as always, is as that other meme from a couple days ago expressed where you have a tally board with 50,000 tallies and one with 5. Tankies (and their self-proclaimed non-tankie allies, as you claim to be) insist those numbers are identical, so you shouldn’t bother supporting either side. I think that’s preposterous to the point of clear bad faith argument, but I recognize it’s possible that someone… less wise… may in fact fully believe it.

5 is bad. I want it to be 0. But I’ll take 5 over 50,000 any day of the week and you will never convince me that’s wrong (in the General).

MLs want to get rid of the boot entirely, but we disagree on some details

Frankly: bruh

You simply are completely unaware of the practices of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and their friends.

Marxists may want to get rid of the boot, but Marxist-Leninists firmly do not.

Here’s some things you might want to read about (in case you’re not trolling) and anyone who made it this far who isn’t aware you’re completely wrong on that bit:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Revolution

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

Plenty of M-L boots on plenty of necks in any of those examples. I don’t see how you could ignore that apart from a No True M-L fallacy angle.

Blending terms for the sake of “they share some traits so we shouldn’t have distinct terms for them” is how to confuse the hell out of any discussion.

See also: We don’t call cars “horses.”

i have plenty of criticisms for MLs, but i am willing to work with them on shared goals; it’s kind of the fundamentals of a coalition. the problem is i don’t really have shared goals with liberals and whenever i’ve try to ask liberal politicians to advance anything i care about i get either ignored or hostility.

Sorry to hear you feel that way, but it seems like you’re letting rare anecdote drive your stereotyping into hostility towards a group - the exact thing you accused me of earlier.

showing up to vote every year is not the same as engaging in electoral politics. i have no patience for political campaigns, and i usually just protest vote anyways.

Ah okay, then yeah you’re pictured in the meme. Protest votes towards candidates with ~0% chance of winning in the general are tantamount to staying home. Odd to see you’ll hold your noise for a coalition in one case but not in the other, but I doubt I can convince you otherwise in this conversation (or life).

To me:

1. Democrats don’t want a boot on my neck

2. Republicans want a Hitler-flavored boot on my neck

3. Tankies want a Stalin-flavored boot on my neck

The choice for who I ally with seems obvious, much like in the OP. I would think an anarchist would agree with that logic more than anyone, but obviously you’re not obligated to tell the truth on the internet.

Again, you’re oversimplifying the complexities of human political thoughts to a literal single dimension. Cue the scene from Donnie Darko when Donnie is asked to put every human action somewhere on the Love-Fear Spectrum.

Tankies try to gaslight the normal people into thinking nazis and fascists were progressives.

I have never seen or heard a tankie make that argument; I’ve only heard it from MAGAs fairly recently - I saw it starting around a year ago.

Sorry to hear you feel any criticism of tankies is “loudmouth liberals smugly talking shit,” but thank you for helping prove the point.

Strange to see an anarchist go to bat for tankies, let alone proclaim to vote, but it’s at least interesting.

I’m not crying about it, I’m just pointing out it’s another anecdote in a large pile of anecdotes - mostly for the benefit of people new to Lemmy who might be unaware that people defending tankies tend to originate from lemmy.ml.

Honestly I’m a bit regretful I even brought it up, just because it gave you an opportunity to magnify the diversion and waste everyone’s time.

But yeah, in a thread about how toxic tankies are, it’s no surprise there’s going to be tankies coming in to pretend that’s not the case. Hardly rocket science. I was just trying to point out that you’re probably a tankie because 99% of the tankies I’ve met on here come from lemmy.ml.