So its really just the same “actual artist” vs “horny gooner dumbass” split that has plagued Japanese media for decades 😭

Fair nuff, I guess you didn’t claim that was the reasoning

Hey, you’re the one who voted for someone who wanted to kill brown people, not me. And now you’re saying you respect someone who wears a maga hat? I guess that tracks

I made it up? It must have been a hallucination when all the people who didn’t vote for Kamala for her stance on the genocide in Palestine were called “purity testers” who were letting the “perfect be the enemy of the good”? Come on. Don’t act like you aren’t aware of this. It was one of the biggest contributors to her election loss and one of the issues that vote-abstainers are most constantly criticized for. I just made it up? You’re fooling nobody.

If the people suffering systematically is a constant between the two options, then how is it relevant to the choice?

This is like saying “if my infected wound is going to sting whether I leave it alone or put disinfectant on it, then how is it relevant to the choice?” The answer is that one of the choices, while still shitty and possibly even more painful, creates the possibility for a better future despite the present.

Voting for the corporate neolibs IS what makes more fascist candidates viable. Not voting for them is what forces the party to offer legitimate opposition to fascism and representation of the lower class. Yes, abstaining makes things worse in the short term, in exchange for the possibility of making things better in the long term.

The only reason Trump was ever a viable candidate is because of people using your reasoning being unwilling to take that short term bitter pill for the last 40 years.

It seems like you’re just feeding marginalized people to fascists in exchange for getting to say you didn’t vote for the neo-lib.

I love when people trot out this argument, because it’s exactly what you’re doing, on a LARGER scale and in a subtler way than you accuse me of doing.

I didn’t skip voting so I could win some community respect. It’s not exactly a popular stance (unlike yours) in case you haven’t noticed. I did it despite the economic, safety, AND social consequences because I truly believe it was the only way to make the possibility of a better future.

Wait, I thought the suffering of third-worlders was NOT supposed to be a deal-breaker for Kamala fans? 😂

I give more fucks than you since I was willing to make my life worse in order to create the possibility for an eventual actual turnaround in the Democratic Party. And lo and behold we now have the most progressive representation in nearly a century in New York - even then with an uphill battle against the establishment. Meanwhile you were only willing to vote for the person that would maintain your personal comfortable status quo, everyone else be damned. Keep on projecting “bigly”, clever boy

Oh noooo I can’t talk with the guy who doesn’t understand multi-step reasoning anymore 😭😭😭

The future, even larger amounts of kids in ICE cages dont give af about how noble your cause is. I know its hard for you to understand consequences more than a few years out. Luckily people like me are looking out for those future kids, whereas you? You’re only looking out for yourself.

My thought process was not what you say it is.

My mental model of the election dynamic is more complicated than the one you presented, so bear with me.

My thought process was:

How did we even come to the point that Trump had a shot at winning? And I remember back when we said the same thing about Bush, and about Reagan before that. And then I had a horrible thought:

What if, just like how Reagan presided over the country becoming unbelievably worse, and then Bush presided over that continuing to happen… What if Trump is only the worst thing so far? What if we all vote for an establishment dem out of fear, just as last time, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that… And even if they win (as they do every so often) they don’t really do what anyone wants, and America keeps becoming more and more horrible to live in, and people keep getting more desperate, education keeps getting worse, and suddenly - someone even worse than Trump is now a viable candidate?

After all, America has generally gotten nothing but worse since the 1980s. There have been some serious social wins, but they’re incredibly overshadowed by economic losses. Sure gay people can get married now, but they (ans everyone else) are also far closer to being effectively enslaved than they were 40 years ago…

So with all that in mind I thought, “if only those people in the past, before the consequences were too dire, had stuck to their guns through those hard times and forced the party to really represent them next time” and I realized that, to them, at their time, it must have felt as dire as it felt now to me.

So I made a sacrifice to my own current well-being, because I was trying to lay the groundwork for a greater well-being for everyone in the future. My decision had nothing to do with punishing others, nothing to do with not giving a fuck, and its sad to me that that’s the only explanation you can think of.

I want to say something like: “You lose the right to say you’re against fascism, because you refused to make a short term sacrifice for future generations, you refused to look at even contemporary history, you refused… Etc”

But I won’t say that, because you were trying to do the right thing too, and you just didn’t see the situation the same way as me. But you wanted the same thing. And even though from my perspective, you enabled fascism, I would never dare say you’re not against it just because I disagree with your methods. Try to do me the same courtesy.

Meanwhile all the people in America who have suffered systematically for decades would continue to suffer systematically. No denying things would have been great under Kamala for people who were privileged all along.

Thanks for at least allotting some probability to me being genuine. The one thing I can’t stand these days is people acting like everyone who disagrees with them is doing it in bad faith.

I am not sure what exactly you’re suggesting, though.

But we also know that neoliberal Democratic Party elites offer a tepid vision of “inclusiveness” that refuses to challenge the oligarchic nature of U.S. society.

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/history/#founding

Seems more in line with what I’ve been saying than what you’ve been saying, honestly. It’s certainly agreeable to me, but if this is an organization you feel a kinship with…I can’t help but feel that the kinds of memes I often see you posting are contrary to their goals. Unintentionally, I believe. Honestly, most of the left-divisive content I see in Lemmy comes from you in particular, to the point that when I see some of these things I think “did Godric post this? Oh, yep”.

I’ll always keep reconsidering what actions I can take. Hope you’ll do the same

Let’s say we had Harris and Mamdani in the running for Democratic nominee. Who would you want nominated? Who would you suggest people vote for?

And if Harris ended up the nominee, you’d want me to vote for her, wouldn’t you? And if I didn’t I’d be, in your mind, exactly the kind of “leftist infighter” and purity tester that you’re posting about, wouldn’t I?

And if I follow your strategy, I’m seriously asking here - how many years before I get to vote for president for someone that I actually like? Like let’s say Mamdani - how long do you think it’ll be before I can vote for someone like him for president, according to you? I don’t wanna be called a perfectionist or a dreamer here, because I’ve specifically picked a real elected person.

And how has that strategy been working in America since the 80s for you? Let me guess, we just need to suck it up for a few more decades… Just a few more candidates we don’t really like. How many years before we get to vote for someone that we actually like, in your estimation?

The only group acting like that is you “both sides aren’t the same” types, who call people tankies and commies and “purity testers”, and who post denigrating strawman memes like you did, all because others aren’t voting for the candidate you want them to, despite your so-called tankie enemies ostensibly agreeing on every social issue. What’s the difference between these two groups other than their voting strategy? That sounds like 75% agreement to me. And what is it when you demean these people and shoot down every candidate they’d actually support as “too radical”? Sounds like throwing them to the people you 0% agree with to me.

Maybe double check that sarcasm tag.

Wow you’re right, the MEME says they’re wrong so they must be wrong, never mind the actual reasoning they presented!

Why yes, I have noticed the pre-election uptick of posts like this designed to prep the masses to slavishly vote for whatever do-nothing Biden/Kamala/Hillary joke candidate the establishment will be choosing for us next time. If Kamala won we’d all be having brunch right now, right?