No not really, I am way left of Biden, universal Healthcare, free community College, strong social safety net etc. are not radical left ideas, they are centrist.
I also know enough about history to understand that power systems formed around Marxism communism or anarchism are not inherently good or just when put into practice.
I despise the wholesale slaughter of civilians by the military industrial complex, I also despise the violent crushing of dissent by ‘communist’ or ‘socialist’ governments.
A good and just society will always be a mix of different ‘isms’ and marxism definitely needs to be a prominent part of the mix. I’m against total ideological purity, be it capitalist imperialism that can justify industrialized human suffering, or naive tankie bullshit that can justify being on the side of the tanks in Tiananmen square.
the “good society is a mix of isms” line is classic lib dead-enderism. it sounds reasonable but it’s a way of never committing to anything that would actually challenge capital.
i am opposed to a system that unpersons people just because they can’t pay rent, your ‘way left of biden’ horizon stops way short of that.
you seem to resort to thought-terminating cliches to shut down any serious discussion of a change to that system and without engaging with the material conditions those states that did challenge that system operated under.
A government of ideological purity is also a dead end. I agree with you that there is no excuse for tossing people out like trash because they cant keep up with the capitalist rat race. It’s absolute bullshit, and proof positive the USA needs more socialism. The more robust the social safety net, the less that can happen.
You seem to need to misinterpret, and put words in my mouth to make your point, which makes the point questionable at best. A ‘mix of isms’ doesn’t mean all isms should be treated equally, and the mix in the USA is horribly off base.
I want: stronger labor unions that encompass more industries, large increase in wages / the minimum wage. Four day workweek with no pay reduction. Massive reduction in runaway defense spending, and funds conditional on mandatory audits being passed. New improved trust busters equipped to break up modern style monopolies. Renewed focus on spending local and self/community reliance to reduce the power of mega corps, Policing reform with much more training and the requirement for police to carry liability insurance. Strong shift away from burning fossil fuels as an energy source. The list goes on and on, and I’m sure there are many points we agree on.
I do what I can as an individual, but of course I’m still working on it. What do you commit to? So far I’m not sure.
yes i get that you’re a social democrat, you already made that clear. you goals are to stay entirely within capitalism with a handful of minor reforms to attempt to manage capital rather than actually challenge it.
what’s your plan for when capital pushes back against your reforms? i don’t think your framework has an answer outside of wishful thinking.
What do you commit to? So far I’m not sure.
i vote in every fucking primary, municipal election and offyear election. i don’t participate in electoral campaigns because it’s a waste of energy. my organizing work is with antiwar groups and other anarchists making sure people in my city have food.
You’re putting words in my mouth again. I applaud you being anti war and helping feed your community. I think the role capitalism plays in society needs to be massively reduced for sure. Capital only cares at all when you hit them in the wallet, so I try to do that wherever possible.
Your animosity towards those who dont pass your purity test isn’t helpful, and won’t help build momentum for your goals, whatever they are.
For the record I am registered independent, though I do vote for democrats most of the time. I try to pull things left in the primaries as much as possible and I’m not too good to choose the least bad option in the general.
disagreeing with your politics isn’t a purity test… its a political disagreement. it is also a pretty transparent double standard on your part. in this thread you felt free to complain about ‘tankies’ as a broad and poorly-defined category, but people being opposed to preserving capitalism is a purity test.
Capital only cares at all when you hit them in the wallet, so I try to do that wherever possible.
it sounds like you agree with me, but then refuse to engage with politics that is motivated to actually do that
i already stated what i am doing. my work is primarily in mutual aid and antiwar protesting. ie making sure people in your immediate community can eat, building non-commodified spaces that demonstrate things can work differently. for antiwar protests i’ve done everything from letter writing to bird-dogging my reps/senators. i’ve been doing tenant union organizing for years. i do other things too, but i’m not going to broadcast those here.
none of it is glamorous but it builds real relationships and real power outside the state and capital, which is the point.
That’s all good stuff, I don’t see our standpoints as mutually exclusive at all. What are some policy goals you support to bring the government more in line with your views? Or is that not something you believe in?
No not really, I am way left of Biden, universal Healthcare, free community College, strong social safety net etc. are not radical left ideas, they are centrist.
I also know enough about history to understand that power systems formed around Marxism communism or anarchism are not inherently good or just when put into practice.
I despise the wholesale slaughter of civilians by the military industrial complex, I also despise the violent crushing of dissent by ‘communist’ or ‘socialist’ governments.
A good and just society will always be a mix of different ‘isms’ and marxism definitely needs to be a prominent part of the mix. I’m against total ideological purity, be it capitalist imperialism that can justify industrialized human suffering, or naive tankie bullshit that can justify being on the side of the tanks in Tiananmen square.
the “good society is a mix of isms” line is classic lib dead-enderism. it sounds reasonable but it’s a way of never committing to anything that would actually challenge capital.
i am opposed to a system that unpersons people just because they can’t pay rent, your ‘way left of biden’ horizon stops way short of that.
you seem to resort to thought-terminating cliches to shut down any serious discussion of a change to that system and without engaging with the material conditions those states that did challenge that system operated under.
“unpersons”
This is Lemmy I don’t know why you’re censoring yourself.
You could have just checked a dictionary
A government of ideological purity is also a dead end. I agree with you that there is no excuse for tossing people out like trash because they cant keep up with the capitalist rat race. It’s absolute bullshit, and proof positive the USA needs more socialism. The more robust the social safety net, the less that can happen.
You seem to need to misinterpret, and put words in my mouth to make your point, which makes the point questionable at best. A ‘mix of isms’ doesn’t mean all isms should be treated equally, and the mix in the USA is horribly off base.
I want: stronger labor unions that encompass more industries, large increase in wages / the minimum wage. Four day workweek with no pay reduction. Massive reduction in runaway defense spending, and funds conditional on mandatory audits being passed. New improved trust busters equipped to break up modern style monopolies. Renewed focus on spending local and self/community reliance to reduce the power of mega corps, Policing reform with much more training and the requirement for police to carry liability insurance. Strong shift away from burning fossil fuels as an energy source. The list goes on and on, and I’m sure there are many points we agree on.
I do what I can as an individual, but of course I’m still working on it. What do you commit to? So far I’m not sure.
yes i get that you’re a social democrat, you already made that clear. you goals are to stay entirely within capitalism with a handful of minor reforms to attempt to manage capital rather than actually challenge it.
what’s your plan for when capital pushes back against your reforms? i don’t think your framework has an answer outside of wishful thinking.
i vote in every fucking primary, municipal election and offyear election. i don’t participate in electoral campaigns because it’s a waste of energy. my organizing work is with antiwar groups and other anarchists making sure people in my city have food.
You’re putting words in my mouth again. I applaud you being anti war and helping feed your community. I think the role capitalism plays in society needs to be massively reduced for sure. Capital only cares at all when you hit them in the wallet, so I try to do that wherever possible.
Your animosity towards those who dont pass your purity test isn’t helpful, and won’t help build momentum for your goals, whatever they are.
For the record I am registered independent, though I do vote for democrats most of the time. I try to pull things left in the primaries as much as possible and I’m not too good to choose the least bad option in the general.
disagreeing with your politics isn’t a purity test… its a political disagreement. it is also a pretty transparent double standard on your part. in this thread you felt free to complain about ‘tankies’ as a broad and poorly-defined category, but people being opposed to preserving capitalism is a purity test.
it sounds like you agree with me, but then refuse to engage with politics that is motivated to actually do that
Okay so let’s engage. What are you doing to ‘actually challenge capital’? I’m always looking for new good ideas.
i already stated what i am doing. my work is primarily in mutual aid and antiwar protesting. ie making sure people in your immediate community can eat, building non-commodified spaces that demonstrate things can work differently. for antiwar protests i’ve done everything from letter writing to bird-dogging my reps/senators. i’ve been doing tenant union organizing for years. i do other things too, but i’m not going to broadcast those here.
none of it is glamorous but it builds real relationships and real power outside the state and capital, which is the point.
That’s all good stuff, I don’t see our standpoints as mutually exclusive at all. What are some policy goals you support to bring the government more in line with your views? Or is that not something you believe in?