And remember that they got rid of your third spaces so you couldn’t discuss any of it (and made common affordable gathering options like concerts and sporting events out of reach for the same reason). Threw you into algorithms so you felt like you were only preaching to the choir or conversely that nobody held your same opinions/aspirations for something more - either way a formula for you to get exhausted and give up.
This really bothered me when I visited the USA (East coast). In retrospect I feel like I had the right to the highway, as long as I was driving. But no town square with a bench where I could just sit, no park where I could lean against a tree, no parcel of nature where I could just go for a walk. Cafés and restaurants were expensive and uncomfortable, clearly designed to push you out once the nominal transaction was complete. No wonder people eat in their car, alone.
I’m sure I missed a lot of good places during my visit, but I felt like the pattern was very quite obvious. Highway, Walmart, highway, Walmart, highway, Walmart. The forests aren’t wild parts of nature, they’re closed-off as-yet undeveloped land, awaiting their appointment with the axe. The town centers now have fewer options to linger than a classic mall. The suburbs are endless rows of freestanding houses, with no padding - no library, no shop, no playground, no outdoor gym, no football field. Maybe some pro-social resident set up a box for exchanging books between neighbors. That’s it.
Not saying the rest of the world is perfect by any means. But in Sweden where I live, I feel like the I’m seeing positive changes over time, with new third spaces being added every year. In my town the city center is now car-free during summer time to make space for outdoor furniture, and the nearby cafés and bars thrive. They’re adding grills for cooking to parks, making nature trails more accessible, and peppering the place with playgrounds and outdoor gyms. There’s a long way to go to perfect but at least it’s moving in the right direction.
algorithms that have devolved into echo chambers and amazon recommendations. yeah and anyone who creates is a third space is usually labelled an evil person or a conspiracy theorist and put on an FBI watch list. now they have, “an aging problem,” at concerts, clubs and events because no one can afford them except for those in their late 40’s early 60’s, 2012 was the last affordable year for any of those things(, that’s conservative it’s more like 2014.) you’re never preaching to the choir because there’s a bunch of hive minds and if you’re not adhering to them, you’re the odd man out so having an opinion doesn’t even fucking matter anymore.
just like this, this doesn’t matter, right now what i am typing doesn’t mean jack shit but at least you can put it out there. you can put your opinion and your voice out there. I guess that matters more than anything
Absolutely. But also remember that the concept of Third Places coined by Oldenburg focused on the wrong thing. A lot of the examples of “welcoming and leveling” places were actually pretty deeply exlusionary, which makes a lot of the Third Place rhetoric a white, male, heteronormative fantasy.
And importantly, it’s starting from a contradictory place to build a theory of pure civic community around spaces that rely on capital. A business’s primary goal is profit. The moment a patron stops spending money or takes up a table for too long, the illusion of “neutral civic ground” dissolves. By focusing on establishments (where the primary activity is conversation and consumer lingering), his theory ignores the Commons, the true public infrastructure like plazas, parks, and sidewalks. The argument can be made that instead of trying to revive Oldenburg’s nostalgic storefronts, society should focus on the “right to the city” in the shared public ownership of physical space where citizens don’t need a consumer identity to exist.
I can say that practically, growing up very low income, we (small sample of course) could exist for hours, months and years in these places without spending a dollar and without being harassed - and that was with a pretty diverse group (by race, gender, neon hair color and pierced bodies/clothing), but this was in a more predominately progressive, middle class community (bordering wealthy areas) to be fair. And importantly we did always exist in the shadow of it, regardless of spend, and that has to have an effect on some.
I can say that the behavior continued in a form as an adult when I would work from a certain coffee chain using angles with their loyalty program to buy a single coffee for under $2 and work the whole day, consuming maybe $50 retail while working in a more comfortable environment than I could afford otherwise, with connectivity, air conditioning and power.
So by no means ideal, but with today’s desert of connection as an alternative, I think myself and others were able to learn, connect and grow in these spaces, within very limited means, and I can pretty confidently say without suffering impacts of indoctrination or desire to rejoin these places as an adult, as a “fully productive” and participatory member of society.
So my hope would be that people still had those imperfect spaces (of course supplementing the truly free community supported options you mention) for those lessons they did offer, the community one could build and the perspective gained by close proximity to the problems within these spaces (learning what not to do, seeing that the person who carried 4 bags from different stores still didn’t look happy. It didn’t “fix” her)
And remember that they got rid of your third spaces so you couldn’t discuss any of it (and made common affordable gathering options like concerts and sporting events out of reach for the same reason). Threw you into algorithms so you felt like you were only preaching to the choir or conversely that nobody held your same opinions/aspirations for something more - either way a formula for you to get exhausted and give up.
And you do feel exhausted.
This really bothered me when I visited the USA (East coast). In retrospect I feel like I had the right to the highway, as long as I was driving. But no town square with a bench where I could just sit, no park where I could lean against a tree, no parcel of nature where I could just go for a walk. Cafés and restaurants were expensive and uncomfortable, clearly designed to push you out once the nominal transaction was complete. No wonder people eat in their car, alone.
I’m sure I missed a lot of good places during my visit, but I felt like the pattern was very quite obvious. Highway, Walmart, highway, Walmart, highway, Walmart. The forests aren’t wild parts of nature, they’re closed-off as-yet undeveloped land, awaiting their appointment with the axe. The town centers now have fewer options to linger than a classic mall. The suburbs are endless rows of freestanding houses, with no padding - no library, no shop, no playground, no outdoor gym, no football field. Maybe some pro-social resident set up a box for exchanging books between neighbors. That’s it.
Not saying the rest of the world is perfect by any means. But in Sweden where I live, I feel like the I’m seeing positive changes over time, with new third spaces being added every year. In my town the city center is now car-free during summer time to make space for outdoor furniture, and the nearby cafés and bars thrive. They’re adding grills for cooking to parks, making nature trails more accessible, and peppering the place with playgrounds and outdoor gyms. There’s a long way to go to perfect but at least it’s moving in the right direction.
algorithms that have devolved into echo chambers and amazon recommendations. yeah and anyone who creates is a third space is usually labelled an evil person or a conspiracy theorist and put on an FBI watch list. now they have, “an aging problem,” at concerts, clubs and events because no one can afford them except for those in their late 40’s early 60’s, 2012 was the last affordable year for any of those things(, that’s conservative it’s more like 2014.) you’re never preaching to the choir because there’s a bunch of hive minds and if you’re not adhering to them, you’re the odd man out so having an opinion doesn’t even fucking matter anymore.
just like this, this doesn’t matter, right now what i am typing doesn’t mean jack shit but at least you can put it out there. you can put your opinion and your voice out there. I guess that matters more than anything
Absolutely. But also remember that the concept of Third Places coined by Oldenburg focused on the wrong thing. A lot of the examples of “welcoming and leveling” places were actually pretty deeply exlusionary, which makes a lot of the Third Place rhetoric a white, male, heteronormative fantasy.
And importantly, it’s starting from a contradictory place to build a theory of pure civic community around spaces that rely on capital. A business’s primary goal is profit. The moment a patron stops spending money or takes up a table for too long, the illusion of “neutral civic ground” dissolves. By focusing on establishments (where the primary activity is conversation and consumer lingering), his theory ignores the Commons, the true public infrastructure like plazas, parks, and sidewalks. The argument can be made that instead of trying to revive Oldenburg’s nostalgic storefronts, society should focus on the “right to the city” in the shared public ownership of physical space where citizens don’t need a consumer identity to exist.
Very true and a welcome point of view.
I can say that practically, growing up very low income, we (small sample of course) could exist for hours, months and years in these places without spending a dollar and without being harassed - and that was with a pretty diverse group (by race, gender, neon hair color and pierced bodies/clothing), but this was in a more predominately progressive, middle class community (bordering wealthy areas) to be fair. And importantly we did always exist in the shadow of it, regardless of spend, and that has to have an effect on some.
I can say that the behavior continued in a form as an adult when I would work from a certain coffee chain using angles with their loyalty program to buy a single coffee for under $2 and work the whole day, consuming maybe $50 retail while working in a more comfortable environment than I could afford otherwise, with connectivity, air conditioning and power.
So by no means ideal, but with today’s desert of connection as an alternative, I think myself and others were able to learn, connect and grow in these spaces, within very limited means, and I can pretty confidently say without suffering impacts of indoctrination or desire to rejoin these places as an adult, as a “fully productive” and participatory member of society.
So my hope would be that people still had those imperfect spaces (of course supplementing the truly free community supported options you mention) for those lessons they did offer, the community one could build and the perspective gained by close proximity to the problems within these spaces (learning what not to do, seeing that the person who carried 4 bags from different stores still didn’t look happy. It didn’t “fix” her)
Thanks for taking the time to reply with your perspective, I’ve had a similar experience.