I (23M, American) feel completely paralyzed from a career perspective because I have no idea what the hell to do. If I choose the wrong degree program, I have to pay back all the debt with nothing to show for it. Even if I get a job, there’s no telling how long that will last. Everything keeps changing so fucking fast and it seems like any field I could go to college for could cease to be viable by the time I finish. On top of that, I have chronic health conditions to worry about that limit what I can even do.
(Edit: Basically I have POTS and a neck injury, so it’s hard to do physical labor and I suffer from dizziness, brain fog, and fatigue from being up for an hour or so. I don’t know my exact limits yet, since the severity of my condition varies by day and there appear to be ways to partially recover from the fatigue without having to lay down.)
I think stuff like urban planning and designing walkable environments would be cool, but I’m not sure if that’s a viable path in 2027 and beyond. I also used to be interested in programming, but ever since AI and mass layoffs hit the scene, I’ve become disillusioned and stopped pursuing that path.
I used to feel like the world was stable and I could pick a career based on my passion and be fine. But ever since 2020, everything has felt increasingly more uncertain. The world seems to be losing its collective shit and that doesn’t appear to be changing anytime soon.
Is staking your sense of stability on your career the wrong way to think about this? Should I be trying to find close friends or some kind of supportive community that could act as a safety net? Or is everyone too hyperindividualist to look out for each other?
If it makes you feel better, in Sweden, the average age of students is 25. Why? A lot of them do what they want and figure things out first before deciding. A lot travel, work, or save money before going to college. It’s the norm for them.
Meanwhile for the rest of the world, we’re pressured to figure things out as soon as we leave high school. Looking back, it’s mainly because we are pressured by our parents to go to college. It became a status symbol and bragging rights for them if their kids went to college.
You don’t. We live in a fucked up society and nothing about this situation will changed until society changes at a fundamental level.
We’re fucked mate.
Join the union building trades my dude. Wake up early, make six figures, and get paid to be trained. We dont go into debt for education. We go into debt buying boats and shit.
Trades are fine but IMO if you have to use a union to make your income then the people at the top of the field are too much of an asshat to know that what they do is broken and causing people to need unions.
the people at the top of the field are too much of an asshat to know that what they do is broken and causing people to need unions
Isn’t that the case with almost every field?
Unless the people at the top have an incentive to keep the field healthy, they’re not going to bother to do it. That’s why regulations, regulatory boards, and unions are helpful
That is the perverse incentive of capitalism yes.
Not every field is prone to this perverse incentive and it depends on a per company level how bad it is at any given place, we can choose to get paid well and not need unions easily enough so I’d avoid supporting a company with the work I do for them if something got so bad that it needed a major regulating body to sprout up.
Maybe this is just me being privledged or something but I’ve never seen instances where a union was just automatically better and I’ve actually heard a handful of accounts where it was mostly wasteful so it seek very much like your mileage will vary.
I come from a nordic country with very high level of union membership. Pretty much every time it’s a benefit to be a part of a union just because of collective bargaining. It’s also very important for when there’s a dispute and you need a lawyer, the unions can have a salaried lawyer that has experience with your contract because it’s the same one as for all the other people.
Unions also sometime provide heavily discounted vacation homes and bunch of other nice things.
Oh yeah definitely wasnt thinking about Nordic countries.
Its my understanding that Nordic countries are basically moving capitalism along the slowest by burdening everyone in many ways but more evenly compared to somewhere like in the us so it makes sense to me that in countries like that people could benefit more from unions because they have more direct things for unions to deal with but in the us all the businesses operate much more variably so it really depends on what place in particular is in question and it could even be a matter of location of the same business having wildly different problems or lack of problems.
Funny, you actually think businesses are less varied in the nordics. Capitalism is also just not slow, nordics at the top of billionaires per capita lists, income and other money metrics. Only difference is we’re not swimming in poor people like the US.
Says they aren’t less varied
describes how they are less varied
I mean, that’s always been the case, in almost every company ever. There are some rare business owners out there that truly take incredible care of their people without a union demanding it, but organized labor and collective bargaining are what brought an end to child labor in the US and Europe. It’s where we got weekends and mandatory safety practices. We’ve always had to fight back to demand humane conditions.
I’m not saying unions are bad and we should not have them I’m saying we should not need unions in the first place so we should seek out where they aren’t needed.
Also side note, I’m surprised how many people are downvoting my posts in this thread lol can people not read the subtext?
I mean, your reply comes off a little, well, unwise? Like you’re maybe making assumptions on a subject you don’t know much about. I’m not trying to be mean, just guessing at why you’re getting beat up on the votes.
You should in fact seek out unions, because union membership makes unions stronger, and union presence increases working conditions and wages for not just union members but for non union workers as well. It’s documented and confirmed.
A lot of the union contractors I’ve worked for have worked with our trade unions for generations, and some of the higher ups in those companies came from the union ranks and still mostly keep their loyalties. It’s not all roses, but usually when companies get used to playing by our rules, they end up doing okay at it and some are downright pleasant.
This is probably less the case when you’re hearing about sectors that are traditionally non union (gaming studios, Starbucks, whatever) where Union organizing is a new thing and those companies are kicking and screaming and plotting to stop it.
Seek out unions where unions are happening is different from seeking out unions where they aren’t yet established and where they aren’t at all are places where they seem to be functionally well without extra governance and so likely more people worth helping out because they have things going in non destructive ways from the start.
Sure whatever
You’re catching downvotes because what you’re saying doesn’t make sense. Non-union workplaces are usually more fucked up, that’s not a sign that “unions aren’t needed.”
Mhm, I’m saying find the lens that aren’t.
Still doesn’t make sense, my guy.
Woops thats an autocorrect mistake lol “lens” is supposed to be" ones"
You can’t. Neither can any middle-aged person, nor old person.
I’m in my mid 40s and I dunno. I thought I had it. Now, my company that promised permanent remote work and confirmed my moving was fine, is trying to kill remote work. I live in very rural Japan and there aren’t many jobs out here. No US/Canada companies seem interested in working with a backend engineer on the other side of the world. I have back problems so there are also limits on what physical work I can do so something like construction is basically not an option. So, with my life more than half over, I might lose everything again. If I do, my life will just go to being completely over.
I sort of know that feeling. Hope things go better for you.
I don’t think there is job stability anymore. Society fucked over everybody except the ultra rich.
There’s so many people transitioning from IT to plumbers and electricians that market will be oversaturated soon enough. I guess there’s becoming a doctor if you can handle 7 years of schooling.
I’m a mechanic of a decade. I can’t throw a rock without hitting a place begging to have me, and have walked out of jobs over petty shit and had better paying jobs before i made it home. If you pick the right trade there is no shortage of demand! And when you can’t walk without tripping into another job, you can ask for a little more than their willing to give too. They don’t wanna pay? Fine, toolboxes have wheels for a reason! Not the best paying career but if nothing, it’s stable and reliable. Oh and my maintinence cost on my and the wife’s vehicles is next to zero between shop discount on parts and free labor (me). Pretty much any other trade is better than being a mechanic, my buddy in HVAC makes more than me and doesn’t work near as hard but he had to wait to find a place taking apprentices.
100% the Tech sector is saturated and people were discouarged from doing hands on jobs for a long time. Ive never seen an unemployed pipe fitter (Plumber) unless they drink too much. Same with electricians, mechanics and millwrights. Most of the trades you just have to decide how far you are willing to go for work. Do you want to travel, fly in/out, camp, or stay in one community. After you get that sorted out it is gravy.
I’m older but have the same sense you have. I think your best bet is to choose a career to pursue based on the kind of contribution you’d like to make to the world.
Right now, AI is mostly changing the way some jobs are done. Other new tech will probably contribute to more of those kinds of changes. If you choose a career primarily based a skillset you like using, I think there’s a good chance you’ll end up very disappointed later when the way the jobs are done changes. But if you choose based on impact and then develop a range of skills (especially people skills!), you’re more likely to end up OK.
You mentioned that programming and urban development interested you. Urban development seems more directly about making a certain kind of impact, so in your shoes, I’d go that direction. That said, I don’t know why you’re interested in programming, and maybe there’s an impact you want to make in that field too.
I made the mistake of choosing a career based on a skillset. New technology has reduced jobs in my field, but the much larger problem is that I hate the way the jobs are done now. I could probably stay motivated and do the extra shit needed to survive in that career in the longer term if I still felt like it made a positive impact on society, but the field itself doesn’t make the world better. So I made a shift into a new industry, although I’m not expecting stability from this one either, and it’s not one that would make sense for you based on your post.
Stuff like plumbing and electrician work seems to be pretty stable.
We don’t.
A lot of negativity online and in this thread but imo that doesn’t really represent the world. There’s more career paths and options today then there ever was. If you have no responsibilities (family etc) then you should allow yourself to explore and time to build something.
Don’t be afraid of weird or “low skill” - everything builds skills and connects to more opportunities but most importantly now more than ever it’s important to be quitter - so you can actually leave at diminishing returns point and take advantage of new opportunities.
Hi I’m an American doctor here. I’m going to parrot something my father told me growing up. (I come from a family of doctors). “They will always need doctors”.
I resisted it because I took it for granted but he was right. Being a doctor is among the most stable lifestyles you can find today. I live like I think everyone should be able to live. I can tell my job when I’m not available. People take my opinion seriously(even in non medical matters).
The road to being a doctor is hard as balls and will take a minimum of 7 years (often more) before you can do anything with it but you get to help people, you get to think critically every day, and the life is stable. Tbh I can’t imagine myself doing anything else now. (If you had asked me during training how I felt, I would have told you this was the biggest mistake of my life).
The road to the end is very very long and it is very very stressful. I felt like I was going to die during it several times.
Plumbers and electricians will always be needed too
Except everyone and their mother are trying to become those now. There’s a good chance that that labor market will become oversaturated. 😢
Take it from a nurse, any job that regularly deals with literal human shit will never be over saturated.
And people will pay anything for help when their toilet is backing up and overflowing at 2 am
EMS has been over saturated for like forever and that’s one of the shittiest jobs in existence
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any job that regularly deals with literal human shit will never be over saturated.
-MurseJoy
Long list of people that want to do a cool job (EMS) = lower pay and over saturated.
-MurseJoy
Well there you go. Disproved your own thesis lol
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I got like 4 friends trying to be drs and it really is a grueling process
You don’t. You get a new job every two years.
Despite what the Boomers have told you, “stability” is a thing of the past. Your best opportunity for growth and regular raises is to constantly switch jobs until you’ve contributed enough to your 401K to retire. And if you don’t have a 401K, get one ASAP. Don’t wait until your late 30s like I did or you’ll be working until you drop dead. Take advantage of that employer match ASAP. It’s basically free money on the table. (And if your employer doesn’t offer a 401K with a match, well that’s yet another reason to switch jobs.)
Also, I know this won’t make you feel better, but you really do need to make sure that you’re both happy with your choice of major, and able to make money from it. Otherwise you will struggle even more than the rest of us. I fucked around and dropped out because I didn’t know what I wanted for a career, and I’m still paying for it. I will never know what it feels like to own a new car or anything nice. (FWIW I’d likely be in the same situation even if I did graduate, because I unfortunately picked STEM as my major and anyone who has gone down that path can tell you how useless of a degree it is.)
It fucking sucks that life is this way, but that’s the reality we live in. When I was your age it took me about a decade to come to terms with the fact that the American dream only existed for two generations in America (Boomers and Gen X); everybody else gets to suffer. You’ll eventually come to terms with it as well. Or you’ll get mad enough at the billionaires that killed the American Dream and start a revolution.
I agree whole heartedly with the savings for retirement and taking advantage of matching. But I do disagree that you need to find something that you enjoy doing for your career.
I went down that path and found that the enjoyment really fades when you have to do it every day for someone else.
Personal, anecdotal history aside, Ive told a half dozen employers ‘I dont work to support you, I work to support my family. So long as the pay keeps rolling in, ill keep showing up.’ I went to school for tech and got a production job in forestry. Opened a side business repairing computers for everyone in town. Eventually, it got to the point when I was dreading the phone calls and walk ins. I love tinkering and playing with tech, upgrading, tweaking, getting my home server set up.
Doing it every day for people who dont listen? No thanks.
Find an income, and then do what you enjoy with the money you earn.
Regardless, every path is different, and you have to own yours. Whatever choices you make, take responsibility and move forward.
To elaborate, by “happy with your major” I meant more like “willing to work in your chosen industry for the rest of your life” than “enjoy your work”.
I agree with you 100%. One of the reasons why I dropped out is because I saw myself living a future hating one of my favorite hobbies… In fact it already happened. I’ve done some tech support on the side here and there over the decades; eventually I stopped fixing computers because I got tired of hearing people say to me, “something different broke and you were the last one to touch the PC so it’s all your fault”. Not to mention the frustration of dealing with a computer that just won’t work. This is the same reason I’ll never be a mechanic despite loving cars. I like electronics and machines better when they’re functional.
Hell, my current gaming rig died after I replaced the CMOS battery and I just do not want to deal with the hassle of trying to figure out why it won’t POST anymore. So I bought a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter and my $4000 gaming rig just sits in the corner of my office partially disassembled because I just cannot be bothered. My phone is my desktop now.
Anyway sorry for the ADHD-induced tangent. Point I’m making is that you provided some solid advice and I hope OP reads it.
Look to labor statistics to see general trends, but also know there are outliers for every stat. Old intuitions say work closer to where the money comes (issuance) from for stability; banks, governments, financial sector, etc. Next best is selling to people/organizations who have money when others don’t. If you’re in a country without reasonable, universal healthcare working for the healthcare industry can afford cheaper coverage or better adherence to equality requirements if you or a dependent are prone to frequent illness. Use whatever talents and interests you can, but most people keep their passions for hobbies and choose a career based on capabilities, opportunity, and what kinds of stress they can manage.
I know my parents didn’t think the world was stable when the Korean war and then Vietnam were going on plus Cold War, acid rain, ozone depletion and women had very few rights. Blacks couldn’t vote in the USA so that caused spillover problems in Canada. When I was your age it was a recession, gas had been horrendously expensive, interest rates were high teens or 20s, recent university grads were going on to second degrees because there was no work to be had - although post secondary debt wasn’t as high as now because you literally couldn’t borrow that much money unless your parents were rich and could afford to pay it.
What I’m saying is that very rarely does anyone in your age group feel like the world is going their way. Figure what you able to do, a combination of your talents and your likes, and figure out the cheapest way to learn how to do it if it means post secondary education or trades or your own time. Most people cannot find something they LOVE to do that will also pay the bills. Or even if you do love it, making it pay the bills is a good way to eventually hate it. In regards to bills, what life do you, not your parents/friends, want to live? Your needs might be less or more than anothers. One person can have a great life on $50K and another “needs” $200K. Where do you need to live? Many people get stuck on staying where they grew up but if you look to previous generations, many had to move to get to where their job and their life aligned. There are probably many, many jobs that you have never heard of and therefore haven’t considered. Career counselling can help.I would encourage you to continue to pursue your interests in programming despite AI advancements. Sticking with something you’re interested in means you can stay motivated even when dealing with less pleasant other aspects of your job that always exist like annoying co-workers. Having the core work you enjoy has been critical in my career as I could get absorbed into it and block out other negatives. It also is a job where its quite acceptable to work remotely and based on your health conditions it seems like a good match.
I totally understand the anxiety around the future, and a degree is a huge financial investment. One way that might help is to think about learning in terms of adding tools to your belt, and less about training for job A and then getting job A. Programming has a lot transferable skills across many industries so you can follow the money into whatever industry is in demand by the time you finish your studies (it will probably be ai related IMHO). Whereas city planning is highly specialised and those skills are harder to transfer to the point you’re locking yourself into an industry with a heavily limited revenue stream.
AI has changed how we work significantly but we will always need humans in the loop who actually know what’s going on. This comes from someone with 26 years in the industry. There is so much more to building software than just coding too. Don’t let the doomers get to you.
My other advice is while support networks can be helpful don’t put your survival onto anyone else’s shoulders. In my personal experience people are human at the end of the day they can let you down, and at the worst possible time. It’s so so so much better to build self reliance and resilience. I think your assessment is true, people are hyper individualistic today, that said people do care still (look at all the replies in this thread trying to help), but there are limits to altruism. So for the question, where to invest to get stability, honestly my answer isn’t community or your career, it’s you invest in yourself and your own capabilities for the best chance of a successful future.
Good luck!
